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Ok: Jealously rears its ugly head...

Base: Renewing Your Mind General Forum for April 2001
Re: Christianity and high vs. popular culture (Christopher Little)
Re: So, what's the problem???? (The Good Guy)
Re: Feedback As B. Bunny says, "Of course you know, this means war." (Keith M.)
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 21:57:17 GMT
From: bpgillespie@att.net (The Piper)
I was going to leave things simple so as not to make you look foolish, but.....

Let's take a real look at the differences between the two vices in question:

The Bass: Primarily a background instrument. Intended to accompany other real instruments. Wimpy acoustics require amplification in order to be heard. A good 'starter' instrument for non-musically inclined children.

The Great Highland Bagpipe: The center of attention. Provides its own background (i.e. doesn't require some 'lesser' instrument to accompany it). Never requires amplification. Known for rousing the souls of real men (and women) the world over. The Gospels make clear that those who do not appreciate the music of the pipe lack understanding (Mt 11:16-17).

Given my last point, this probably constitutes casting pearls before swine, but I do try to evangelize where I can.....

The Piping Apostle

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Feedback: I wouldn't go so far as to call you jealous.

Re: Ok Jealously rears its ugly head... (The Piper)
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 23:05:09 GMT
From: KMathison@ligonier.org (Keith M.)
[PIPER] I was going to leave things simple so as not to make you look foolish, but.....

[ME] One is immediately reminded of the boasting of the infamous Black Knight who after suffering the loss of both arms and legs is still convinced that he has won the day.

[PIPER] Let's take a real look at the differences between the two vices in question:

The Bass: Primarily a background instrument. Intended to accompany other real instruments. Wimpy acoustics require amplification in order to be heard. A good 'starter' instrument for non-musically inclined children.

[ME] What you deride as "background" those in the know regard as "foundational."The bass plays the dual role of rhythm and melody, tying the two together. And while the electric bass may require amplification in order to be heard, at least it can claim the honor of wanting to be heard. Sadly we cannot claim the same for the Pipes. May I once again produce exhibit A - the lonely Scotsman playing the pipes in the middle of nowhere. Why are bagpipe players always playing the pipes where no ther living human being (or creature) can be seen? Is it because they have been exiled for playing their chosen "instrument"? One cannot help but wonder. Why are they always standing near a cliff? Is it because the sound is driving them to despair?

[PIPER] The Great Highland Bagpipe: The center of attention.

[ME] In much the same way a car wreck is the center of attention.

[PIPER] Provides its own background (i.e. doesn't require some 'lesser' instrument to accompany it). Never requires amplification.

[ME] Perhaps due to the lack of desire among people to hear it.

[PIPER] Known for rousing the souls of real men (and women) the world over.

[ME] ...to madness and insanity.

[PIPER] The Gospels make clear that those who do not appreciate the music of the pipe lack understanding (Mt 11:16-17).

[ME] And who is playing the pipes in this verse? Children. Perhaps the reason the people did not dance was because it was those "non musically inclined children" that you referred to playing these pipes. Or perhaps it was due to the impossibility of dancing to pipe music. In any case, one cannot help but notice the difference between the stringed instrument and the pipe instrument. God tells us to praise Him with the stringed instrument (Psalm 150). The pipes, on the other hand, are a child's instrument, a mere toy (Mt. 11:16-17).

[PIPER] Given my last point, this probably constitutes casting pearls before swine, but I do try to evangelize where I can.....

[ME] And I appreciate your misplaced zeal. But once again we must ask ourselves, from whence did this instrument come. I have my own speculation. I believe the bagpipes originated during the Highland Games of Scotland. We must remeber that the Highland Games gave us such famous sports as pole tossing and the giant boulder toss. It is my guess that during the Highland Games many many years ago someone tried to come up with another feat of strength, so this person invented a game called "Cow squeezing." The original intention of the game was for each man to pick up a cow and squeeze it to see who could shoot milk the furthest. Unfortunately, one of the strongest champions squeezed too hard and blew all of the hooves off his cow. The ghastly sound that came out of the leg holes caused people to cringe. The man and his cow carcass were kicked out of the village for destroying perfectly good livestock. So he carried the cow carcass away - off to the cliffs. While walking he inadvertently would squeeze the cow causing more of that bizarre sound to come out of the different leg holes. When he got tired of walking and was bored, he would stand and for fun try to see what kind of noises he could produce by sqeezing in different places and holding different leg holes closed. Well, as often happens, one thing led to another, and today you have the Bagpipes.

Unless someone can come up with a more reasonable explanation of the origin of the bagpipes, I will continue to adhere to my theory.

So...

ELECTRIC BASS - Lower register guitar.

BAGPIPES - Exploding Scottish Cow.

The choice is easy my friends.

Keith M. ;^)


Ok: You guys are TOO funny!

Re: Feedback I wouldn't go so far as to call you jealous. (Keith M.)
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 23:21:45 GMT
From: anne_g_ivy@yahoo.com (Anne)
Both wrong, mind, but funny.

Both instruments pale in comparison to a properly played tuba. ;->

Anne, mother of a Proper Tubist


Ok: I will never be able to hear the bag pipes again without thinking of your explanation : ) NT

Re: Feedback I wouldn't go so far as to call you jealous. (Keith M.)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 00:13:19 GMT
From: moldsdavid@prodigy.net (Idelette)


"It's only a flesh wound...."

Re: Feedback I wouldn't go so far as to call you jealous. (Keith M.)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 00:24:34 GMT
From: bpgillespie@att.net (The Exploding Scottish Cow Squeezer)
The Delusional One: "One is immediately reminded of the boasting of the infamous Black Knight who after suffering the loss of both arms and legs is still convinced that he has won the day."

The Rational One: Actually, I am more reminded of the nearly dead gentlemen who tried to insist that he was really getting better. Insisting that it was so, didn't make it so. Delusions of granduer. I can help you with that, but as Gopher says in Winnie the Pooh: "Oh, this is going to run into money!"

TDO: "What you deride as "background" those in the know regard as "foundational."

TRO: Ah, 'foundational'! Yes, I believe that is what Coach always told the worst kid on the team (me) when he sent him out to right field: "Son, it's a foundational position." Things are becoming clearer now.

TDO: "And while the electric bass may require amplification in order to be heard, at least it can claim the honor of wanting to be heard."

TRO: Oh, yes, history is replete with examples of solo bass players who are called upon to celebrate weddings and to memorialize those who have passed on.

TDO: "May I once again produce exhibit A - the lonely Scotsman playing the pipes in the middle of nowhere. Why are bagpipe players always playing the pipes where no ther living human being (or creature) can be seen?"

TRO: If we didn't have someplace to go to avoid the screaming throngs of adoring females, we'd never get any practicing done.

TDO: "Unless someone can come up with a more reasonable explanation of the origin of the bagpipes, I will continue to adhere to my theory."

TRO: OK, I'll admit that you've got me here. I don't know the real history, but I bet that your version is more interesting. I'm going to start telling people this story at the games and we'll see who believes me. But if you don't mind, I think I'll stick with 'Piper'. 'Exploding Scottish Cow Squeezer (E.S.C.S)' just doesn't flow as nicely.

Tell you what, getting back to the Black Knight: What do you say that we call it a draw and just start making fun of people who play the Tuba? (Hi Anne).

The E.S.C.S Piper


Ok: Okay

Re: "It's only a flesh wound...." (The Exploding Scottish Cow Squeezer)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 01:38:33 GMT
From: KMathison@ligonier.org (Keith M.)
You know we always end up calling it a draw, so one of these days we're going to have to flip a coin or something.

Keith M. :^) - A.K.A. - The Delusional One


Ok: I love it! Bass instrument trash talk!

Re: "It's only a flesh wound...." (The Exploding Scottish Cow Squeezer)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 16:13:43 GMT
From: jdworth@velocity.net (Jane D.)
There's an interesting dynamic going on here.

Keith is eloquent in his derision of the tone of the bagpipes, while Piper has nothing stronger to say against the bass than that it isn't very interesting, isn't hard to play, and can't stand by itself.

Not that I'm taking sides, mind you. I happen to think that Keith's explanation of the history of the pipes is highly entertaining, but of course we all know that the real story is that the angel McMoroni appeared to Angus McIntyre on a high peak in the highlands (after Angus had finished his meal of haggis and was quietly studying his Geneva Bible) and handed down golden plates containing instructions for building and playing a divinely beautiful instrument.

But really, I'm not taking sides.

Jane, who is probably the only current forumite who has a Catholic brother who plays tuba in a Klezmer band


Ok: Clarification

Re: Ok I love it! Bass instrument trash talk! (Jane D.)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 16:44:56 GMT
From: KMathison@ligonier.org (Keith M.)
Piper and I can do this because we have an understanding. He knows that I don't really hate the bagpipes, and I know that he really understands the musical superiority of the four string electric bass. So, we're able to joke like this without anyone's feelings getting hurt.

Keith M. :^)


Ok: It always wrecks these things...

Re: Ok Clarification (Keith M.)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 16:49:17 GMT
From: jdworth@velocity.net (Jane D.)
when you have to make that kind of disclaimer. I was pretty confident that was the case. :-)

Jane


Ok: Maybe...

Re: Ok It always wrecks these things... (Jane D.)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 16:55:55 GMT
From: KMathison@ligonier.org (Keith M.)
But at least I did get Piper to grant that my theory of bagpipe origins was more interesting than whatever theory he had.

Keith M. :^)


Right (I think)....

Re: Ok Clarification (Keith M.)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 17:00:32 GMT
From: bpgillespie@att.net (Piper)
"Piper and I can do this because we have an understanding. He knows that I don't really hate the bagpipes, and I know that he really understands the musical superiority of the four string electric bass."

Was that our understanding? My memory is really starting to go. Must be all this loud noise that always surrounds me.

Anyway, if you are able to pick up your instrument and simply play, then there are times when I'd be more than willing to trade. If you don't have to tune 4 separate parts of the instrument (although, in a way, I guess that you do), worry about the weather conditions, worry about the amount of moisture in your breath, worry about the way the wood responds to humidity, and simply deal with the fact that the instrument that you love was, basically, designed to drive you crazy, then you really do have the superior instrument.

I guess mine is more like a drug. It's wrecking me, but I can't break the habit. And now I'm teaching our two oldest boys. Pray for my poor wife.

You Know Who


Well, as for preparation...

Re: Right (I think).... (Piper)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 04:58:17 GMT
From: ebyrch@hotmail.com (Valerie)
...when the doohickie falls off and you have to refill the thingumabob with air just as you were all set to play the recessional at your daughter's wedding....

(I was there. The bride's father of course knew the terms I'm at a loss to express.)

Of course it WAS my favorite new year's eve ever when another friend delighted the suburban neighborhood by piping at midnight. Bass couldn'ta done it.

Of course it IS absolutely useless to try to sing anywhere in the vacinity of bagpipe activity, whereas a bass can be very vocalist-friendly.

Of course I COULD imagine Amazing Grace played decorously on the pipes at my funeral, whereas I can't picture a bass in the scene at all.

Of course it ISN'T necessarily a compliment for an instrument to be positively associated with death.

Of course bagpipes DON'T have a name that is a homograph of last Christmas's worst singing gag gift.

I'm soooo conflicted! I think I need ten years of music therapy....

~Valerie, who has also been highly amoosed by the debate, and likewise needed no disclaimer as to its amicable nature


Ok: Amazing Bass

Re: Well, as for preparation... (Valerie)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:10:37 GMT
From: KMathison@ligonier.org (Keith M.)
Valerie,

It's funny you should mention Amazing Grace because on the Flecktones CD "Live Art," [That CD that no one here has EVER heard me mention before] Victor Wooten does a solo that includes a tapped harmonic version of Amazing Grace on his bass. I've seen him do it, and it's a little hard to describe how he does it, but it includes him playing the fingerboard with both hands somewhat like a piano. Rather than fret the note with the left hand and pluck it with the right, he simply plays the bass notes with the left hand by hitting the string hard enough against the fret to cause a vibration, and he does the same with the higher notes with his right hand. On top of that he plays the main melody using harmonics. Those who have the CD can tell you, it's an interesting version of the song.

Keith M :^)


There's nothing worse than having your doohickie fall off....

Re: Well, as for preparation... (Valerie)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:01:42 GMT
From: bpgillespie@att.net (Piper)
"Of course it WAS my favorite new year's eve ever when another friend delighted the suburban neighborhood by piping at midnight. Bass couldn'ta done it."

Good point. But then again, bagpipes at midnight really isn't a good idea in most situations. Unless you LIKE jail.

"Of course it IS absolutely useless to try to sing anywhere in the vacinity of bagpipe activity, whereas a bass can be very vocalist-friendly."

Actually, if you play outdoors the pipes are not all that loud. I've had people break into song during Amazing Grace at a funeral.

"Of course it ISN'T necessarily a compliment for an instrument to be positively associated with death."

True. And, depending upon who you are talking with, being associated with weddings ain't no prize either.

"Of course bagpipes DON'T have a name that is a homograph of last Christmas's worst singing gag gift."

This, ISTM, is the final nail in the Bassman's coffin. You'll never confuse the pipes with a singing fish. A dying cat maybe. But NOT a singing fish.

"I'm soooo conflicted! I think I need ten years of music therapy."

Funny you should mention therapy. I have an opening at 10:00 next Tuesday. We'll work through this together. And you won't be conflicted at all. You'll KNOW that the Bass is the work of the devil.

The Exploding Cow Guy


Question: What goes moooo--*POP* ?

Re: There's nothing worse than having your doohickie fall off.... (Piper)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 04:33:48 GMT
From: ebyrch@hotmail.com (Valerie)
Piper, I wasn't even thinking about your profession when I added that last bit! Too funny. Pencil me in for Tuesday at 10:00.


Ok: LOL thank you I can listen to the pipes again with a better vision NT

Re: Ok I love it! Bass instrument trash talk! (Jane D.)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 18:02:09 GMT
From: moldsdavid@prodigy.net (Idelette)


Ok: I shot tea! (noTea)

Re: Feedback I wouldn't go so far as to call you jealous. (Keith M.)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 17:06:55 GMT
From: rbarnes@ligonier.org (Robert Barnes, Cybersheriff)
Jealously rears its ugly head...
to: "Jealously rears its ugly head..."
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